Reading this, and looking back to your RICO post, I think you’re saying there was a possible private cause of action under RICO that could have gotten SBF extradited. I don’t believe that is the case. I think the private cause of action under RICO is a civil suit, which cannot be used to extradite.
The civil RICO route remains open now, though courts can be tough on such claims brought by private parties, precisely because it’s such a powerful statute.
Of course, now that there are criminal charges, even SBF will presumably shut up and exercise his right against self-inclination in any civil suits against him, but that was inevitable unless the government forewent criminal prosecution altogether.
The timing of the criminal charges and arrest coming hours before his scheduled congressional testimony remains beyond fishy.
As noted, extradition can be for court hearings (not simply the guilty). Even if SBF failed to (somehow) turn up, judgement would be rendered in default, and with seizeable assets wouldn't find a penny to his name. He'd not be able to return to the US, and with no income, would find the hefty price of the Bahamas too prohibitively expensive to live in (small islands have to import, and import brings costs).
I think a judge would easily agree it is RICO with the *billions* of dollars involved, RICO is an appropriate action for a venture of this size, as there were multiple organisations co-mingling assets on a large scale.
The next step down would be a class action lawsuit to recover funds, but those are super boring.
Well, not exactly. A court in a civil case needs to find territorial jurisdiction before allowing the case to proceed, but once it does, the defendant’s personal presence in court isn’t required for him to defend the case.
My point was that there is no route under U.S. federal law for a private party to make use of criminal-law process like extradition requests (in fact, even most federal agencies, such as the SEC, have to rely on the Justice Department for that).
I thought you were saying otherwise, but whatever.
In the SBF/FTX case, restitution to victims would be expected to play a prominent role, though – as with Madoff – that may be part of the government’s case, rather than private lawsuits.
But since the political fix seems to be in, private civil claims may yet play a big part.
It's a fair interpretation. I'm personally confident you could, in-fact, extradite someone for a civil case, even if it isn't something that has been willingly tested, and I often find myself breaking new ground by advocating unexpected routes people *think* are verboten but turns out it is simply a social taboo rather than a legal imposition, but as said, the article isn't legal advice.
Even if it was truly verboten, as said, there are plenty of States who could file RICO (which would be a criminal case by implication). Either way, my technicality hunting is moot, SBF will be en-route, and the US gov are now in a panic. I'd like to think the article had something to do with that, although I imagine they'd had to file the paperwork long in advance of 12 hours.
We the people deny the need for unwanted and dangerous injections and obviously reject the mandating of such stupid intentions.
We are far healthier WITHOUT invasive medical experimentation being applied and we have already refuted any decision our stupid, uninformed representatives believe have committed us to.
We refute the MANDATING of such irresponsible and dangerous actions.
The World Health Organisation has run it's course and since the interference of it's main benefactor, Bill Gates, has proven to be dangerous and out of control. the WEHO must be disbanded or considerably restructured for the Health and Wellbeing of humanity instead of Gates, et al, PROFIT MAKING and World DEPOPULATION.
We, the people, have spoken and will act in accordance with democratic processes for what is best for humanity.
LIABILITY for Big Pharma's deadly injections must be reintroduced immediately to ensure COMMON SENSE prevails. Immunity from LIASBILITY is currently their 'LICENCE to KILL' with impunity.
I believe this prevents SBF from testifying before Congress. People could still file a RICO case. The hogs in Congress dont want this spilling out in an uncontrolled fashion. SBF is a low-grade midwit and likely to collapse under pointed questions; why provide the sound bites? FTX is likely the means by which the connected have been laundering US funds through Ukraine. There's $20 billion that they (the Biden administration) admit are "lost" funds. Now SBF can receive his pat on the head and a few years in Club Fed. Everyone gets to keep their ill-gotten gains.
I definitely agree it is a limited hang out to prevent it implicating government workers. Congress seem miffed their little show 'n' tell has been stopped prematurely and are having sharp words with the DoJ.
SEC are also fighting with the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) on who gets to regulate crypto. SEC claims crypto are securities. CFTC claims they're commodities.
My argument relies on the assumption crypto is a currency, which is neither. SEC are trying to push the money laundering angle, but it requires that they shoot themselves in the foot and acknowledge crypto as a currency, not a security. In-fact, it was anything but a security - entirely unsecure!
SBF is indeed a midwit. I imagine he'll plea bargain the first offer that scoots across his table and take jail on the nose. If he thinks video gaming is appropriate during the biggest fuck-up imagineable, in the words of one comedian 'he'll fold faster than a red hot chocolate Mars bar on a hot summers day in the witness box'.
I had a whole response prepared and refresh wiped it out. Words have meaning. I want to see FTX and Alamedas transaction records. The funds went somewhere.
Concur. I know people keep saying Ukraine, but Ukraine feels too "current thing" for my tastes, and their work was in *Japan*.
So I imagine whatever it would be, would be Tax/Japan/Bahamas centric.
Try digging up the family ties on SBF. I bet you family will tell you more than anything. Reportedly his mother *discouraged* 'social responsibility'. The father sounds like a piece of work too, but I haven't had time to dig.
Oh the family screams Glowie. Mom and Dad are part of the academia. His aunt is part of some NGO. I always smell a rat until proven otherwise; another collary could be "believe the Conspiracy Theory until it is demonstrated as false." Ukraine was around since 2014 when Nuland and Co deposed Yanukovich in favor of Nuland's pick Yatsenyuk. At least 4 DC families are connected with Burisma and ancillary companies. The Establishment runs money through multiple points. Ive always felt Crypto was a means of hiding money flows. Only that which one can hold has true value.
Since your mentioning this, there are reports on ZeroHedge that they're expanding the investigation to the parents. Joseph Bankman took cash from Sam/FTX, and Barbara Fried engaged in political donations.
Looks to me like a political donation laundering ring to obscure reporting from FEC for any outsider/foreigner/illegal proceeds.
Youre likely right. Auntie Fried is part of a voting-related organization. The question will be in any prominent politicians are prosecuted. For some reason I dont think the DOJ will be up to the task.
No man is 100% honest in any category, and it'd be dishonest for me to paint someone as purely honest in all regards, especially when I'm not in a position to verify all statements and claims ever made. I do hold contention he claimed he'd accept feedback but for 8 months despite numerous approaches didn't pick up the mRNA instability issue, covered it once then never mentioned it again.
Reading this, and looking back to your RICO post, I think you’re saying there was a possible private cause of action under RICO that could have gotten SBF extradited. I don’t believe that is the case. I think the private cause of action under RICO is a civil suit, which cannot be used to extradite.
The civil RICO route remains open now, though courts can be tough on such claims brought by private parties, precisely because it’s such a powerful statute.
Of course, now that there are criminal charges, even SBF will presumably shut up and exercise his right against self-inclination in any civil suits against him, but that was inevitable unless the government forewent criminal prosecution altogether.
The timing of the criminal charges and arrest coming hours before his scheduled congressional testimony remains beyond fishy.
As noted, extradition can be for court hearings (not simply the guilty). Even if SBF failed to (somehow) turn up, judgement would be rendered in default, and with seizeable assets wouldn't find a penny to his name. He'd not be able to return to the US, and with no income, would find the hefty price of the Bahamas too prohibitively expensive to live in (small islands have to import, and import brings costs).
I think a judge would easily agree it is RICO with the *billions* of dollars involved, RICO is an appropriate action for a venture of this size, as there were multiple organisations co-mingling assets on a large scale.
The next step down would be a class action lawsuit to recover funds, but those are super boring.
Well, not exactly. A court in a civil case needs to find territorial jurisdiction before allowing the case to proceed, but once it does, the defendant’s personal presence in court isn’t required for him to defend the case.
My point was that there is no route under U.S. federal law for a private party to make use of criminal-law process like extradition requests (in fact, even most federal agencies, such as the SEC, have to rely on the Justice Department for that).
I thought you were saying otherwise, but whatever.
In the SBF/FTX case, restitution to victims would be expected to play a prominent role, though – as with Madoff – that may be part of the government’s case, rather than private lawsuits.
But since the political fix seems to be in, private civil claims may yet play a big part.
It's a fair interpretation. I'm personally confident you could, in-fact, extradite someone for a civil case, even if it isn't something that has been willingly tested, and I often find myself breaking new ground by advocating unexpected routes people *think* are verboten but turns out it is simply a social taboo rather than a legal imposition, but as said, the article isn't legal advice.
Even if it was truly verboten, as said, there are plenty of States who could file RICO (which would be a criminal case by implication). Either way, my technicality hunting is moot, SBF will be en-route, and the US gov are now in a panic. I'd like to think the article had something to do with that, although I imagine they'd had to file the paperwork long in advance of 12 hours.
We the people deny the need for unwanted and dangerous injections and obviously reject the mandating of such stupid intentions.
We are far healthier WITHOUT invasive medical experimentation being applied and we have already refuted any decision our stupid, uninformed representatives believe have committed us to.
We refute the MANDATING of such irresponsible and dangerous actions.
The World Health Organisation has run it's course and since the interference of it's main benefactor, Bill Gates, has proven to be dangerous and out of control. the WEHO must be disbanded or considerably restructured for the Health and Wellbeing of humanity instead of Gates, et al, PROFIT MAKING and World DEPOPULATION.
We, the people, have spoken and will act in accordance with democratic processes for what is best for humanity.
LIABILITY for Big Pharma's deadly injections must be reintroduced immediately to ensure COMMON SENSE prevails. Immunity from LIASBILITY is currently their 'LICENCE to KILL' with impunity.
Mick from Hooe (UK) Unjabbed to live longer.
I believe this prevents SBF from testifying before Congress. People could still file a RICO case. The hogs in Congress dont want this spilling out in an uncontrolled fashion. SBF is a low-grade midwit and likely to collapse under pointed questions; why provide the sound bites? FTX is likely the means by which the connected have been laundering US funds through Ukraine. There's $20 billion that they (the Biden administration) admit are "lost" funds. Now SBF can receive his pat on the head and a few years in Club Fed. Everyone gets to keep their ill-gotten gains.
I definitely agree it is a limited hang out to prevent it implicating government workers. Congress seem miffed their little show 'n' tell has been stopped prematurely and are having sharp words with the DoJ.
SEC are also fighting with the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) on who gets to regulate crypto. SEC claims crypto are securities. CFTC claims they're commodities.
My argument relies on the assumption crypto is a currency, which is neither. SEC are trying to push the money laundering angle, but it requires that they shoot themselves in the foot and acknowledge crypto as a currency, not a security. In-fact, it was anything but a security - entirely unsecure!
SBF is indeed a midwit. I imagine he'll plea bargain the first offer that scoots across his table and take jail on the nose. If he thinks video gaming is appropriate during the biggest fuck-up imagineable, in the words of one comedian 'he'll fold faster than a red hot chocolate Mars bar on a hot summers day in the witness box'.
I had a whole response prepared and refresh wiped it out. Words have meaning. I want to see FTX and Alamedas transaction records. The funds went somewhere.
Concur. I know people keep saying Ukraine, but Ukraine feels too "current thing" for my tastes, and their work was in *Japan*.
So I imagine whatever it would be, would be Tax/Japan/Bahamas centric.
Try digging up the family ties on SBF. I bet you family will tell you more than anything. Reportedly his mother *discouraged* 'social responsibility'. The father sounds like a piece of work too, but I haven't had time to dig.
Oh the family screams Glowie. Mom and Dad are part of the academia. His aunt is part of some NGO. I always smell a rat until proven otherwise; another collary could be "believe the Conspiracy Theory until it is demonstrated as false." Ukraine was around since 2014 when Nuland and Co deposed Yanukovich in favor of Nuland's pick Yatsenyuk. At least 4 DC families are connected with Burisma and ancillary companies. The Establishment runs money through multiple points. Ive always felt Crypto was a means of hiding money flows. Only that which one can hold has true value.
Since your mentioning this, there are reports on ZeroHedge that they're expanding the investigation to the parents. Joseph Bankman took cash from Sam/FTX, and Barbara Fried engaged in political donations.
Looks to me like a political donation laundering ring to obscure reporting from FEC for any outsider/foreigner/illegal proceeds.
Youre likely right. Auntie Fried is part of a voting-related organization. The question will be in any prominent politicians are prosecuted. For some reason I dont think the DOJ will be up to the task.
Whaddya mean Kirsch is "relatively honest"?! How is he *not* honest? He seems entirely honest to me.
Wolf has a doctorate; she is not a medical doctor, as I understand. That doesn't make her less professional etc: I'm just clarifying.
TPTB don't yet seem to have gone for your embezzlement suggestion re SBF, Underdog - they missed a trick there!
No man is 100% honest in any category, and it'd be dishonest for me to paint someone as purely honest in all regards, especially when I'm not in a position to verify all statements and claims ever made. I do hold contention he claimed he'd accept feedback but for 8 months despite numerous approaches didn't pick up the mRNA instability issue, covered it once then never mentioned it again.