I think as more information gets released from these Twitter files Alex may regret this take. We haven’t seen all there is to see about their COVID “misinformation” policies or the policies around the word “groomer” yet. It’s likely we will continue to get more of a view into who Yoel is and based on what we have seen so far he’s not someone I trust around my family to say the least.
Dec 12, 2022·edited Dec 12, 2022Liked by The Underdog
Alex is a grifter and opportunist; he found a niche with vax criticism. Despite ivermectin showing a fair level of efficacy against covid, Alex jumped all over Bob Malone and played the "kook" card. His expectations of Elon have been absurd. Elon is tasked with changing the culture at a leftist shithole that literally had a 75% extraneous workforce. Alex is just looking for grist to make more grevience articles now that covid is over and his shtick is no longer relevant.
I have my reservations of Malone personally, but I do support his right to free speech, whether I trust him or not. I've also called out Elon extensively (comparing Elon to his own self-declared standards) and will admit I don't trust him either. I think not being trusting is a requirement for accurate reporting.
Especially not since the 'Trump Operation Warp Speed' shot push, and the fact Elon is confirmed to be making mRNA for CureVac (which is the most bizarre thing; is every political pundit an mRNA shot seller? Since when was this a thing?). He's being too strongly sold as the hero for my tastes, which feels a bit like how Trump was sold as the swamp draining service and then nothing happened.
That said, I will never endorse invalid criticisms because they weaken the strength of important ones. One of the rare opportunities to show it's nothing personal, purely based on actions.
Dec 13, 2022·edited Dec 13, 2022Liked by The Underdog
Exactly. So many people embrace the fallacy of dismissing evidence because they dont like the source. Let me state that I'm highly skeptical of any public figure; most seem to be profiting from covid in one way or another. Malone is no doubt working some angle; hes had his hands in the federal research grant cookie jar too many times not to come away without some connections. Berenson was so derisive towards anyone in his audience that didnt support Ukraine when there was little vax related to discuss or when he beat Twitter in court and tried to keep the damages until the readers took issue.
Imo Elon is another gatekeeper. Like the Republican Party, he promises a lot but delivers little. I'll believe he's about free speech when people like Jared Taylor get their twitter back. Face it, Elon made a fortune swindling the government. First with the tax credits on EVs and now extended into the Space program. Hes invested in so much more but it all started with a little grift.
Could you give a link to something about CureVac? It’s completely new to me, and when I searched for Musk and CureVac, most of the hits were from 2020.
The article includes photos of Elon at the CureVac facilities (hard to find: most have been deleted), details of the partnership, Elon's praise for CureVac and Moderna, Tesla's work on the mRNA "microfactories", CureVac's implication in the mRNA instability issues, as well as Elon praising the mRNA CureVac shot, and the 47% effectiveness.
The article is only out-of-date by one consideration: Dr Robert Malone has since been unsuspended. McCullough, Kirsch and others still are.
I hate to double reply but I've been pondering the Elon question further. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Strauss and Howe's "Fourth Turning" but we're currently in the final chaotic phase of the 80ish year cycle. The US is currently in a "rhyme" of the Weimar Republic. A certain Austrian Coporal was groomed by a faction of the elite of that era. It's unnerving how he has come to prominence and suddenly shaping a lot of the Narrative. Not to say Elon is that man but we're in one of those points of history where a despot may arise with unpleasant results. Twitter allows some serious king-making power.
Only one small quibble on your comment about Musk sacking "most of the employees who were supposed to keep Twitter free ..."
I don't think Musk sacked most of the employees, all of whom were supposed to keep Twitter free ...
I think Musk sacked most of the employees whose specific job was supposed to keep Twitter free ...
Other than that, a cogent argument.
I'm deliberately not looking deeply into this, as finding out that a senior person supposed to protect children from abuse on Twitter is actually creepy about children and sex would just be too depressing to discover at this point. But hats off to the courageous investigators and reporters who do have the backbone to research this!
Don't be depressed, as the creep is no longer working at Twitter, and their comments are becoming public. Something you couldn't even do prior to Elon's purchase. I am no fan of the CureVac mRNA stuff, but I will take any situational improvement. There are 51 US government employees (at least) that used to work at Twitter who have questions to answer on this matter.
I followed Alex all through the COVID experience. Most time he was always on the mark on that subject. But numerous times he would go off the rails whenever Trump was woven into the subject matter. He has a hard time staying objective. Looks like he is doing it again. I think he is an admitted liberal at heart & struggles when dealing with people that have values different than his.
I feel like his response was prompted by Elon blocking him. The Yoel thing has hovered for a few days now. I'm pretty sure Elon has somehow reduced the visibility of his Tweets in my feed (I follow him to keep pace with the developments), although he hasn't blocked me outright (I can still see and respond to his account, I just have to go out of my way to do so), it is still his right and freedom to block me from seeing him and vice versa.
What no social media company has the right to do is interfere with my speech or conversations with others, especially those interested in listening. There's a difference between Elon making a personal choice for himself, and an entire company deplatforming someone and making all the choices for that person.
Alex is a former mainstream journalist who used to work for the New York Times, the same publication that has been lambasting Elon non-stop over non-issues (such as the firing of his workforce, which as CEO he is free to do). His critiques seem trivial compared to the more glaring issues (for example, if he's worried about bloodshed, why not condemn Musk's US military involvement?).
That said, I don't try to use a person's history in a rebuttal article (rebuttal articles ought to be argument-focused rather than personal attacks), with the exception of maybe highlighting conflicts-of-interest to the audience where appropriate.
He could be helping the opposition, although he has picked a very weird hill to die on if he is. If it is attempt to do an 'In Defence Of' style article, you have to be very careful to avoid hyperbole and neither assume innocence nor guilt. It feels more like a 'shotgun argument' article where a scattering of not-really-relevant arguments have been fired off in Elon's general direction.
There's other contradictions too - he hates Yoel's censorship of his work, but he hates Elon firing people who 'moderate abuse' (read: censor) but he's pleased Yoel is gone but isn't happy Elon is implicitly criticising Yoel. Perhaps cognitive dissonance? Who knows.
Great, dispassionate look at Berenson’s post. Many thanks!
While a lot of what he wrote is iffy to say the least, the “if blood flows” business is in a league of its own: it takes us straight into the territory of “stochastic terrorism,” Taylor Lorenz, and the whole speech-repressive, woke paradigm.
Is it just a case of Alex getting too much/too little caffeine yesterday morning, or is it possible he actually thinks in those terms?
(P.S. I’m not certain your reading of what Alex said about the firings is absolutely correct, but getting into a hall of mirrors where I maybe misread what you said about Alex maybe misreading Elon is more than I’m up for.)
To be fair, Alex's point was difficult for me to interpret. Did he mean Elon had fired the abuse material reporting staff? As shown later, Irwin of Trust and Safety notes he hadn't and the team were already non-existent.
So perhaps did Alex instead mean Elon had fired so many Twitter staff (the 75% firing) that he had crippled Twitter's ability to handle the reporting of abuse? An argument suggesting perhaps he could have re-allocated, or re-staffed the team? Of course, by demonstrating CSE has gone down post-firing suggests 1) the abuse team are still operational (showing Alex premise not to be true) and 2) they're more effective, rather than less.
Whichever of the two interpretations I could make out, I feel like I sufficiently refuted both to cover bases. Perhaps there is another.
I didn't go into too much extent on the abuse reporting situation, as there's plenty of details out there. Musk says he wants to use AI (so staff numbers not as important), has his own Tesla team coders working there, and many outlets report the reduction in CSE.
Reports claimed Elon fired advertising teams, cafe staff, fired the international staff (he has closed his Brussels office, for one) and selectively fired people who have shown corrupt behaviours on Slack, which runs contrary to Alex's... rant?
These are all readily available things Alex could have read.
Dec 13, 2022·edited Dec 13, 2022Liked by The Underdog
Musk - Good or Bad? I'm still 'watching this space'!
Most of what he's done seems to come under the 'GOOD' column, as far as I'm concerned, but he's got a few fingers in Covid & Vax pies, so I'm wary.
Why is he keeping McCullough, Wolf, Kirsch & Malone 'exiled'? He should justify this strange action for those he NEEDS to keep on his side.
His stance on the DEADLY injections (laughably called VACCINES) would be a big incentive to support or trash him.
LIASBILITY for DEADLY Meds makers is ridiculous and he should assist in the fight for COMMON SENSE to apply instead of letting Pfizer (etc) use their 'stolen' concession as a Licence to KILL with impunity.
Mick from Hooe (UK) Unjabbed, watching and waiting to see Musk's 'true colours'.
Heavy distrust of Musk on my part. I only thing the 'good' things he does (which seems to be mainly kubuki theatre with the media with no real outcomes) are to score brownie points with the crowd in order to hide a bigger agenda. It's the agenda part I'm having trouble figuring out.
I think as more information gets released from these Twitter files Alex may regret this take. We haven’t seen all there is to see about their COVID “misinformation” policies or the policies around the word “groomer” yet. It’s likely we will continue to get more of a view into who Yoel is and based on what we have seen so far he’s not someone I trust around my family to say the least.
Alex is a grifter and opportunist; he found a niche with vax criticism. Despite ivermectin showing a fair level of efficacy against covid, Alex jumped all over Bob Malone and played the "kook" card. His expectations of Elon have been absurd. Elon is tasked with changing the culture at a leftist shithole that literally had a 75% extraneous workforce. Alex is just looking for grist to make more grevience articles now that covid is over and his shtick is no longer relevant.
I have my reservations of Malone personally, but I do support his right to free speech, whether I trust him or not. I've also called out Elon extensively (comparing Elon to his own self-declared standards) and will admit I don't trust him either. I think not being trusting is a requirement for accurate reporting.
Especially not since the 'Trump Operation Warp Speed' shot push, and the fact Elon is confirmed to be making mRNA for CureVac (which is the most bizarre thing; is every political pundit an mRNA shot seller? Since when was this a thing?). He's being too strongly sold as the hero for my tastes, which feels a bit like how Trump was sold as the swamp draining service and then nothing happened.
That said, I will never endorse invalid criticisms because they weaken the strength of important ones. One of the rare opportunities to show it's nothing personal, purely based on actions.
Exactly. So many people embrace the fallacy of dismissing evidence because they dont like the source. Let me state that I'm highly skeptical of any public figure; most seem to be profiting from covid in one way or another. Malone is no doubt working some angle; hes had his hands in the federal research grant cookie jar too many times not to come away without some connections. Berenson was so derisive towards anyone in his audience that didnt support Ukraine when there was little vax related to discuss or when he beat Twitter in court and tried to keep the damages until the readers took issue.
Imo Elon is another gatekeeper. Like the Republican Party, he promises a lot but delivers little. I'll believe he's about free speech when people like Jared Taylor get their twitter back. Face it, Elon made a fortune swindling the government. First with the tax credits on EVs and now extended into the Space program. Hes invested in so much more but it all started with a little grift.
Could you give a link to something about CureVac? It’s completely new to me, and when I searched for Musk and CureVac, most of the hits were from 2020.
https://thedailybeagle.substack.com/p/elon-is-part-of-the-vaccine-crowd
The article includes photos of Elon at the CureVac facilities (hard to find: most have been deleted), details of the partnership, Elon's praise for CureVac and Moderna, Tesla's work on the mRNA "microfactories", CureVac's implication in the mRNA instability issues, as well as Elon praising the mRNA CureVac shot, and the 47% effectiveness.
The article is only out-of-date by one consideration: Dr Robert Malone has since been unsuspended. McCullough, Kirsch and others still are.
Awesome. Thanks
I hate to double reply but I've been pondering the Elon question further. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Strauss and Howe's "Fourth Turning" but we're currently in the final chaotic phase of the 80ish year cycle. The US is currently in a "rhyme" of the Weimar Republic. A certain Austrian Coporal was groomed by a faction of the elite of that era. It's unnerving how he has come to prominence and suddenly shaping a lot of the Narrative. Not to say Elon is that man but we're in one of those points of history where a despot may arise with unpleasant results. Twitter allows some serious king-making power.
Only one small quibble on your comment about Musk sacking "most of the employees who were supposed to keep Twitter free ..."
I don't think Musk sacked most of the employees, all of whom were supposed to keep Twitter free ...
I think Musk sacked most of the employees whose specific job was supposed to keep Twitter free ...
Other than that, a cogent argument.
I'm deliberately not looking deeply into this, as finding out that a senior person supposed to protect children from abuse on Twitter is actually creepy about children and sex would just be too depressing to discover at this point. But hats off to the courageous investigators and reporters who do have the backbone to research this!
Don't be depressed, as the creep is no longer working at Twitter, and their comments are becoming public. Something you couldn't even do prior to Elon's purchase. I am no fan of the CureVac mRNA stuff, but I will take any situational improvement. There are 51 US government employees (at least) that used to work at Twitter who have questions to answer on this matter.
I followed Alex all through the COVID experience. Most time he was always on the mark on that subject. But numerous times he would go off the rails whenever Trump was woven into the subject matter. He has a hard time staying objective. Looks like he is doing it again. I think he is an admitted liberal at heart & struggles when dealing with people that have values different than his.
I feel like his response was prompted by Elon blocking him. The Yoel thing has hovered for a few days now. I'm pretty sure Elon has somehow reduced the visibility of his Tweets in my feed (I follow him to keep pace with the developments), although he hasn't blocked me outright (I can still see and respond to his account, I just have to go out of my way to do so), it is still his right and freedom to block me from seeing him and vice versa.
What no social media company has the right to do is interfere with my speech or conversations with others, especially those interested in listening. There's a difference between Elon making a personal choice for himself, and an entire company deplatforming someone and making all the choices for that person.
It's quite simple: it's one (((member))) defending another (((member)))... even though he's a pedo.
Assuming I understand your reasoning, how would you explain Scott Gottlieb publicly defaming Alex Berenson?
Alex is a former mainstream journalist who used to work for the New York Times, the same publication that has been lambasting Elon non-stop over non-issues (such as the firing of his workforce, which as CEO he is free to do). His critiques seem trivial compared to the more glaring issues (for example, if he's worried about bloodshed, why not condemn Musk's US military involvement?).
That said, I don't try to use a person's history in a rebuttal article (rebuttal articles ought to be argument-focused rather than personal attacks), with the exception of maybe highlighting conflicts-of-interest to the audience where appropriate.
He could be helping the opposition, although he has picked a very weird hill to die on if he is. If it is attempt to do an 'In Defence Of' style article, you have to be very careful to avoid hyperbole and neither assume innocence nor guilt. It feels more like a 'shotgun argument' article where a scattering of not-really-relevant arguments have been fired off in Elon's general direction.
There's other contradictions too - he hates Yoel's censorship of his work, but he hates Elon firing people who 'moderate abuse' (read: censor) but he's pleased Yoel is gone but isn't happy Elon is implicitly criticising Yoel. Perhaps cognitive dissonance? Who knows.
No doubt you'll keep us posted with your findings please! Mick (UK) Still joining the dots!
Great, dispassionate look at Berenson’s post. Many thanks!
While a lot of what he wrote is iffy to say the least, the “if blood flows” business is in a league of its own: it takes us straight into the territory of “stochastic terrorism,” Taylor Lorenz, and the whole speech-repressive, woke paradigm.
Is it just a case of Alex getting too much/too little caffeine yesterday morning, or is it possible he actually thinks in those terms?
(P.S. I’m not certain your reading of what Alex said about the firings is absolutely correct, but getting into a hall of mirrors where I maybe misread what you said about Alex maybe misreading Elon is more than I’m up for.)
On the firings, I could see what you mean.
To be fair, Alex's point was difficult for me to interpret. Did he mean Elon had fired the abuse material reporting staff? As shown later, Irwin of Trust and Safety notes he hadn't and the team were already non-existent.
So perhaps did Alex instead mean Elon had fired so many Twitter staff (the 75% firing) that he had crippled Twitter's ability to handle the reporting of abuse? An argument suggesting perhaps he could have re-allocated, or re-staffed the team? Of course, by demonstrating CSE has gone down post-firing suggests 1) the abuse team are still operational (showing Alex premise not to be true) and 2) they're more effective, rather than less.
Whichever of the two interpretations I could make out, I feel like I sufficiently refuted both to cover bases. Perhaps there is another.
I didn't go into too much extent on the abuse reporting situation, as there's plenty of details out there. Musk says he wants to use AI (so staff numbers not as important), has his own Tesla team coders working there, and many outlets report the reduction in CSE.
Reports claimed Elon fired advertising teams, cafe staff, fired the international staff (he has closed his Brussels office, for one) and selectively fired people who have shown corrupt behaviours on Slack, which runs contrary to Alex's... rant?
These are all readily available things Alex could have read.
Musk - Good or Bad? I'm still 'watching this space'!
Most of what he's done seems to come under the 'GOOD' column, as far as I'm concerned, but he's got a few fingers in Covid & Vax pies, so I'm wary.
Why is he keeping McCullough, Wolf, Kirsch & Malone 'exiled'? He should justify this strange action for those he NEEDS to keep on his side.
His stance on the DEADLY injections (laughably called VACCINES) would be a big incentive to support or trash him.
LIASBILITY for DEADLY Meds makers is ridiculous and he should assist in the fight for COMMON SENSE to apply instead of letting Pfizer (etc) use their 'stolen' concession as a Licence to KILL with impunity.
Mick from Hooe (UK) Unjabbed, watching and waiting to see Musk's 'true colours'.
Heavy distrust of Musk on my part. I only thing the 'good' things he does (which seems to be mainly kubuki theatre with the media with no real outcomes) are to score brownie points with the crowd in order to hide a bigger agenda. It's the agenda part I'm having trouble figuring out.